|
Author
|
Topic: Are we as good as we thought???
|
Bama Cat
Player
Member # 153
|
posted 12-07-2021 10:45 PM
That's the big question right now. After tonights game against a less proficient (supposedly) team I don't believe we had any decent scoring runs. We could never just put them away. I know we are everyone's super bowl and they will play extra good just because it's UK.
But tonight opened up a number of weaknesses for sure. Starting with Oscar, he is not that over powering against a good team because of a couple flaws in his game. First of all I thought this from early in the season, he doesn't jump very high and that will hurt him when we get to the SEC. His rebounding will suffer, and he has only average speed on his put backs. Look out for some SEC blocks. His other big problem is being at the wrong place at the wrong time just like another old UK player, Gimel Martinez. It looked like the refs were picking on him all the time and that's what looks to be happening. Hope he can get better in this area because when he goes to the bench in the SEC we are up a creek.
WE are getting lazy on some of our passes also. It seems we get in a rut and can't pull out of it until the other team has taken advantage of us. There were way too many difficult passes attempted tonight and we paid for it in many cases.
Another thing is when e go cold in shooting it seems to be contagious. Allen did himself no favors tonight by starting off with a bad air ball on one end and then coming down and making a bad mistake on defense. Sometimes it seems he's not taking advantage of the time Cal gives him before he's back on the bench.
I'm not sure just how good Notre Dame is but I hope we're ready for them on Saturday.
Posts: 14244 | From: berea, ky, usa | Registered: Sep 1999
| IP: Logged
|
|
m hamilton
Player
Member # 127
|
posted 12-08-2021 06:11 AM
I hate to say it, but I'm inclined to agree with you Bama. Southern is supposed to be the last serious cupcake we have left on the schedule save High Point. If that's the case, we might be in for a long season. As Bama said, we seem to all miss the basket at the same time!
Notre Dame will be our first true road game of the season. I guess we'll see how we respond to the opposing crowd!
--------------------
The potus is planning 1st major tax hike since '93 in next economic package!
I still can't believe some people believed that LIAR!!!
Your whole life is determined(by) 10% what happens to you, and 90% how you handle it!!!
Posts: 124043 | From: vevay, IN USA | Registered: Sep 1999
| IP: Logged
|
|
handycat
Player
Member # 2323
|
posted 12-08-2021 07:06 AM
I also agree. Without this cupcake schedule, our record wold not be indicative of a Top Ten team IMO.
I also agree with your comments about Oscar. I can’t spell his last name either Bama. Overall, I fear he will not fare well against other quality big men. Having said that, without him, we easily lose that game.
For me, that game sucked worse than a five dollar vacuum.
Talent is not the problem on this team. I’m beginning to think we may not have the coaching to convert that talent to wins. It’s taken me a longtime to start leaning in this direction but I’m starting to tilt.
[ 12-08-2021, 07:35 AM: Message edited by: handycat ]
Posts: 5446 | From: decatur ill. | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
PaulCat
Player
Member # 513
|
posted 12-08-2021 07:40 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Bama Cat:
Allen did himself no favors tonight by starting off with a bad air ball on one end and then coming down and making a bad mistake on defense. Sometimes it seems he's not taking advantage of the time Cal gives him before he's back on the bench.
Allen rushed that airballed 3-pointer because on the prior possession he didn't take what would've been a contested 3-pointer and Cal tore him a new one all the way down the court.
Cal's teams play tense and scared. I bet it is no fun at all playing for him. If he would just let his players be comfortable, have fun and play loose I think he would get better results.
Posts: 10358 | From: Erlanger, Ky. USA | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bama Cat
Player
Member # 153
|
posted 12-08-2021 11:27 AM
I know we'll have a good year but I'm expecting some hard losses too. Everyone knows we have a piecemeal team from other teams. Most of them have decent rec ords but they have their faults also. Like Oscar not being able to sky anything like Collins, and his proness to get fouls. Grady is a great shot but he has times when he can't make a 3 pointer. And Washington's often huried drives which go too far until he has to put up a rediculous shot hoping to get fouled. Ware and Brooks who are very undependable and may disappear or not be able to make close shots. Washington is still trying to learn to play inside out instead of taking a awful looking shot.
This was the time they were supposed to learn all this stuff and learn how to play with each other. Don't get me wrong, these guys are far better than what we put on the floor last year, but if we're hoping for a final four......... I wouldn't hold my breath. I hope they get it together better than it is right now and prove me wrong.
Posts: 14244 | From: berea, ky, usa | Registered: Sep 1999
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tiptree
Administrator
Member # 844
|
posted 12-08-2021 06:04 PM
Wow. I couldn't disagree more.
This is a great team.
Tshiewbe is not a Davis, or a Boogie, or a KAT, or a Cauley-Stein. We don't have a dominant big man (yet). He reminds me of a bigger version of Chuck Hayes. Nobody averages that many rebounds per game without some serious effort and understanding of where to be when the ball comes off the rim. Can't believe you would compare him with Martinez!
Between Tshiewbe, Collins, and Ware, we have a good rotation in the paint. We can also move Toppin and even Brooks in there at times. Honestly, I would hate to be the opposing coaching staff trying to prepare for the variety of big men we can throw at them.
And, yes, we are a streaky shooting team. The old adage "live by the three, die by the three" holds a lot of truth. This is why (IMO) Cal never relies fully on the 3-point shot; a skilled half-court team can find ways to score with greater efficiency and consistency than one that shoots a lot of threes. But, when needed, we have a stable of good shooters. Grady, Mintz, Washington, Allen, and even a couple of our bigs can shoot the three. When they aren't falling, we have ample capability to score from elsewhere. Cal is doing some things we have all wanted him to do: Shoot more threes, press, and spread the floor. They should get better at all three as the season progresses. Lest you forget, it is but early December. Camp Cal hasn't started yet. This team is like all of Cal's teams: rough and inconsistent early in the year. But Cal is different, trying new things. I kinda like that.
I may be in the minority, but I think this team is a great team. In fact, I have already bought my NCAA Final Four tickets for New Orleans, and booked my hotel room. I think we have a genuine shot at making a deep run this year, once Cal gets them all on the same page, trusting one another, and playing efficiently.
[ 12-08-2021, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: Tiptree ]
--------------------
Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 13656 | From: Terre Haute, IN | Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged
|
|
ukman
Player
Member # 3032
|
posted 12-08-2021 08:34 PM
I fall somewhere int he middle here. I like the comparison of Oscar to Hayes, and I love his effort and rebounding. However, I do worry that he will struggle against better big men, although he sure did fine against Duke with 17 and 20. I don't think we will see much pressing as the season goes on. Cal does it early in the season against these weaker teams, and honestly that is usually how e get a big lead. I know Cal is having us shoot more 3's, but to me the offense looks basically the same as it has been. A good dose of Elbow, Circle, and a version of the DD. My verdict is definitely not out yet. I have never thought highly of Cal as a in game coach, and still don't. I always feel we are strictly going to go as far as out talent can take us. If it comes down to coaching I don't think we are a final four team. He seems to develop guys in toughness, defense, etc. But not so sure he develops guys on shooting. They seem to become better shooters once they hit the pros. Sure would love to see another final four run, but I won't be surprised if it ends in the 2nd round or a sweet 16. At least it's better than last year.
Posts: 5451 | From: georgia | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bama Cat
Player
Member # 153
|
posted 12-08-2021 09:53 PM
We shall see in Jan when the SEC teams start coming. I'm wondering how his rebound totals may shrink when he goes up against some SEC teams that have a good leaper for a big man. Sometimes even being at the right place doesn't ensure you will go high enmough to grab the rebound.
Posts: 14244 | From: berea, ky, usa | Registered: Sep 1999
| IP: Logged
|
|
ALA_KAT2
Player
Member # 1559
|
posted 12-11-2021 11:07 PM
The team is playing no where near where I thought they’d be by now. Tonight’s loss to ND showcased many of this team’s weaknesses. Actually, their biggest weakness is the guy making $9M a year yelling “ggggggooooooo!” What exactly is being taught in practices for creating offense or not letting your guy get around you on defense? The “switch everything” defensive strategy is not working. On offense, our only strategy for many years seems to be AAU one-on-one individual play. Thank God for Tshiebwe! Unfortunately, he can’t devise offensive strategy to pass it to himself. I think the game has passed Cal by, and he’s too stubborn to change his philosophy.
--------------------
Adair CHS 1966/USAF/WKU/AT&T
GO BIG BLUE!
Posts: 4046 | From: Louisville, KY | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Trey Ball
Administrator
Member # 332
|
posted 12-11-2021 11:18 PM
I can honestly say we are as good as I thought, because I never thought they were very good after watching them struggle against every "small directional" school with the exception of one since the Duke game.
I too think the game has probably passed by Cal and he is acting like Bobby Knight with his refusal to evolve, which will lead to his demise.
UK has talented and experienced players on this roster so Cal can't rely on his typical "Youth" excuse. It falls on him. I had free tickets to tonight's game in the second row and passed on them because I knew this would be the result. I would have never turned that down 10 years ago
UK runs no semblance of an effective offense and maybe the biggest frustrating thing to me is Cal's stubbornness to zone out of bounds plays under the basket. He must like to give up dunks and layups on out of bounds plays.
--------------------
Wife's Mad. Told me we never talk anymore. And just last nite while watching super bowl told her 2 or 3 times to get me a coke and popcorn. Also told her not to forget to take out trash in the morning. Ain't that something. Also told me I was too indecisive. Can't figure out what to do about that. One nice thing I guess. She called me a pro crastinator. Don't know what a crastinator is but I guess I'm a good one for her to call me a pro. Gonna wait til tomorrow to look that up though. I love her but somrtimes can't help but thinking I should have told uncle Junior to keep his coon hound pup and stevens double barrel and also his youngest daughter.
redbone
Posts: 11625 | From: IN, USA | Registered: Dec 1999
| IP: Logged
|
|
SCWC
Player
Member # 2464
|
posted 12-12-2021 07:37 AM
I totally agree with your post Trey, you do know the game of basketball and your perception of this team and Cal as a coach are spot on in my humble opinion.
Posts: 17777 | From: Myrtle Beach, SC | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
PaulCat
Player
Member # 513
|
posted 12-12-2021 09:08 AM
It looks like six players got just about all of the minutes last night. Ware and Allen didn't see the floor and Collins only played three minutes. Were those guys hurt or just in Cal's doghouse?
Posts: 10358 | From: Erlanger, Ky. USA | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged
|
|
ukman
Player
Member # 3032
|
posted 12-12-2021 09:27 AM
This team has the talent, and pieces to be a very good team. The problem is the guy running the show. He is one of he worst game coaches around and will only win when our talent is just superior to the other teams. I've mostly thought the "shooters" we got out of HS that didn't shoot good was just adjustment to college, but know I'm thinking it's Cal and his tired offense system. BJ Boston is shooting 42% from 3 right now. I also am so tired of his just screaming and yelling all the time. He wants to be the show even though he's on the sideline. I am worried we are getting ready to see a steady decline in UK basketball. He has 4 10 loss seasons and 2 at 9 losses in 12 years. Tubby had 5 in 10 seasons and 1 9 loss. Cal has been unranked at the end 3 times, Tubby 2 times. Both won 1 ring. Tubby made the Tournament all 10 years, Cal has missed it twice. They seem pretty similar to me in results. I know Cal has made many more final fours, but he has done less with so much more. I was on Cal several years ago, and that hasn't changed. I see the same issues I saw 5 years ago, it's just he doesn't get the very top talent anymore so his deficiencies as a coach are exposed more. I hope they can turn it around, but it is going to take a huge shift in coaching philosophy or the players are going to have to play out of their minds. Not sure if either will happen. I would be happy if he would go to the NBA in some fashion so we could get a new coach. Thats the only way he'll be gone from here.
Posts: 5451 | From: georgia | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bama Cat
Player
Member # 153
|
posted 12-12-2021 08:07 PM
I definitely agree with the above comments and am just now decidedly off the band wagon. I was afraid what has happened would actually happen. I was afraid making him a coach for life would end up hitting Mitch squarely in the face. And it has. Cal has turned into a carbon copy of Tubby in his final seasons here.
Bringing in these new coaches seems to have done nothing more than increase the cost of the BB program at UK. I'm not so sure now whether any of them will be able to turn this mess around. I look at them to look at losing to both Ohio St. and Louisville. Hope I'm wrong.
This team can only win when the starting five score in double figures. With him running all five into the ground in the second half it's no wonder their shooting was off. I don't think the man know what he is doing or where he is at in times like the second half. You can't tell me some on the bench couldn't have helped when everyone was bombing poor shots and guys were trying to win the game by taking quick shots.
Wheeler's game was atrocious. He handled the ball worse than anyone has here for quite a few years. Washington tried to be something he is not. Made plenty of bad decisions. Grady looked like he couldn't hit the ocean if he was standing in it. Brooks is so inconsistent he's making sure he'll be back for a senior season. And like I said, Oscar's rebounds will decrease when he meets better big men now that the cupcakes are all eaten.
Now that the directional season is over, do the bench players have enough knowledge to convince Cal to play them when the starters can't seem to do anything right?? I am not holding my breath waiting on him.
[ 12-12-2021, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: Bama Cat ]
Posts: 14244 | From: berea, ky, usa | Registered: Sep 1999
| IP: Logged
|
|
Trey Ball
Administrator
Member # 332
|
posted 12-12-2021 10:42 PM
I really just think Cal is an idiot. His comment about "really the defense lost the game" shows how out of touch he is with the game.
Your defense gave up 66 points. The University of Kentucky should be able to score more than 66 points in any given game against any given opponent if he had a clue.
To be a championship level team you have to average at least 77 points per game. History has proven that over and over.
--------------------
Wife's Mad. Told me we never talk anymore. And just last nite while watching super bowl told her 2 or 3 times to get me a coke and popcorn. Also told her not to forget to take out trash in the morning. Ain't that something. Also told me I was too indecisive. Can't figure out what to do about that. One nice thing I guess. She called me a pro crastinator. Don't know what a crastinator is but I guess I'm a good one for her to call me a pro. Gonna wait til tomorrow to look that up though. I love her but somrtimes can't help but thinking I should have told uncle Junior to keep his coon hound pup and stevens double barrel and also his youngest daughter.
redbone
Posts: 11625 | From: IN, USA | Registered: Dec 1999
| IP: Logged
|
|
PaulCat
Player
Member # 513
|
posted 12-13-2021 07:36 AM
Calipari thinks you must limit your opponent's scoring to win the game.
Many of the current great coaches think you must outscore the opponent to win the game.
Two different philosophies that lead to two entirely different styles of play.
Posts: 10358 | From: Erlanger, Ky. USA | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged
|
|
m hamilton
Player
Member # 127
|
posted 12-13-2021 10:35 AM
I think scoring more points than your opponent wins a lot of games! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
--------------------
The potus is planning 1st major tax hike since '93 in next economic package!
I still can't believe some people believed that LIAR!!!
Your whole life is determined(by) 10% what happens to you, and 90% how you handle it!!!
Posts: 124043 | From: vevay, IN USA | Registered: Sep 1999
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bama Cat
Player
Member # 153
|
posted 12-13-2021 12:42 PM
Must agree. If you spend too much time limiting your opponents points that decreases the amount of time left to score your points. Makes sense to me.
Posts: 14244 | From: berea, ky, usa | Registered: Sep 1999
| IP: Logged
|
|
PaulCat
Player
Member # 513
|
posted 12-14-2021 08:21 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Trey Ball:
I really just think Cal is an idiot. His comment about "really the defense lost the game" shows how out of touch he is with the game.
Your defense gave up 66 points. The University of Kentucky should be able to score more than 66 points in any given game against any given opponent if he had a clue.
To be a championship level team you have to average at least 77 points per game. History has proven that over and over.
Trey, this is what Cal said last night:
“We’re up two with a minute (and) 30 (seconds) to go,” Calipari said. “Should have won the game. We held them to 60, 62 before the last play. Do we lose games when we give up only 60 points? Normally we don’t. …"
He certainly seems to contradict himself from one day to the next. And you're spot on, Trey - Kentucky teams, especially with all the McDonalds boys Cal gets, should have 60 points with ten minutes to go in the game. Defense is not our problem.
Posts: 10358 | From: Erlanger, Ky. USA | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tiptree
Administrator
Member # 844
|
posted 12-14-2021 12:14 PM
Basketball is won and lost between the ears. It is a mental game.
There are two ways to demoralize your opponent: Score so much that they lose hope, or frustrate them into playing poorly by playing great defense.
One of them is more reliable than the other. Defense. Scoring should be efficient (as Trey points out, 75-80 ppg should be a minimum for a championship team), but there are times when the ball just doesn't fall. But defense and reboundin are all about effort and will. That is 100% repeatable, day in and day out. That is why many of the greatest coaches focus on defense and rebounding more than offense.
On the other hand, offense is much more variable; the effort may or may not yield consistent results. Some games everything clicks, and we score 100. Other games, like the ND game, we struggle to score. But, even when we struggle to score, we should be able to count on great defense and rebounding.
Count me in the camp that thinks a focus on defense and rebounding is the key to success. Scoring MUST be there too... and we have plenty of scoring options on this team. If we can score efficiently, and play top-tier defense, we will have a great season. But consider the fate of teams that focus on scoring -- the old Mount Saint Mary's teams come to mind. They were never much of a threat to win a national championship. But great defensive teams are always in the discussion.
[ 12-14-2021, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: Tiptree ]
--------------------
Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 13656 | From: Terre Haute, IN | Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged
|
|
ukman
Player
Member # 3032
|
posted 12-14-2021 12:32 PM
I am a believer in focusing on defense and rebounding, but you have to have good offense as well. Cal just sux in the offensive side of the ball. His teams should be able to score 75-80 ppg on the season. You're going to have off shooting nights and defense and rebounding can always keep you in a game. But cal needs to open things up more and not micromanage so much. He needs to look at other successful teams and see what they are doing, and adapt.
Posts: 5451 | From: georgia | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Trey Ball
Administrator
Member # 332
|
posted 12-14-2021 09:35 PM
Tip,
I'm not saying not to focus on defense. I'm saying defense is never why Cal's teams lose against better competition. It's because UK struggles to score against better teams. It is a consistent trend during his tenure. He has to focus more on offense.
66, 55, 64, 54, 64, 67, 73, 58, and 60
Those are the amount of points UK scored in every NCAA tournament loss that UK has had. The "60" was the end of regulation score against Auburn in 2018-19 season. I think they scored 11 in overtime. So UK scored an average of 62.33 points in regulation in their losses under Cal in the NCAA tournament and through in the 58 points in the NIT loss to Robert Morris and you are down to 61.9 points per game in year ending losses.
I'm simply stating that Cal has to work more on creating offense against Power 5 schools to win a title. Just think in 2014-15 UK managed to only score 64 points against Wisconsin. Coastal Carolina managed to put up 72 against that Wisconsin team in the opening round.
If he is to ever hang another banner he better learn how to embrace the offensive end of the court a lot more than he does.
[ 12-14-2021, 09:38 PM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]
--------------------
Wife's Mad. Told me we never talk anymore. And just last nite while watching super bowl told her 2 or 3 times to get me a coke and popcorn. Also told her not to forget to take out trash in the morning. Ain't that something. Also told me I was too indecisive. Can't figure out what to do about that. One nice thing I guess. She called me a pro crastinator. Don't know what a crastinator is but I guess I'm a good one for her to call me a pro. Gonna wait til tomorrow to look that up though. I love her but somrtimes can't help but thinking I should have told uncle Junior to keep his coon hound pup and stevens double barrel and also his youngest daughter.
redbone
Posts: 11625 | From: IN, USA | Registered: Dec 1999
| IP: Logged
|
|
PaulCat
Player
Member # 513
|
posted 12-14-2021 10:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Trey Ball:
66, 55, 64, 54, 64, 67, 73, 58, and 60
Those are the amount of points UK scored in every NCAA tournament loss that UK has had.
After seeing that i'm even more depressed.
Posts: 10358 | From: Erlanger, Ky. USA | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tiptree
Administrator
Member # 844
|
posted 12-15-2021 10:28 AM
Yes, I fully agree. I hope Cal learns to space the floor and take advantage of his shooters this year. We are rebounding well, and playing adequate defense (it will improve as the season goes along). But, as is ALWAYS true in November/December, we are pretty inconsistent offensively.
Your 77ppg for championship teams sounds very reasonable to me, and also sounds like it should be within the capabilities of this team. But, we all know not to expect instant success from Cal's teams. He is very methodical in his ways. By mid-January, we should know if Cal has adopted any new schemes. By mid-February we should know if this team has coalesced and can make a deep run in the tourney.
But, now, we fret. Man, I hope Cal can get a more fluid offense installed! We can't run every play through Oscar.
--------------------
Tiptree
“If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.” Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 13656 | From: Terre Haute, IN | Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bama Cat
Player
Member # 153
|
posted 12-15-2021 11:32 AM
We shall soon see. This Ohio St team is pretty good. If we're not shooting a good % it's going to be all over. And Cal better get off this 5-6 man rotation. He's running the starters into the ground and they're making bad decisions because of it. If he doesn't have 3 or 4 bench players who can give something after playing 9 games he needs to do an inside out check on himself.
Posts: 14244 | From: berea, ky, usa | Registered: Sep 1999
| IP: Logged
|
|
ukcatfannfl
Player
Member # 1425
|
posted 12-15-2021 04:18 PM
The problem with Cal's teams "jelling" is that we lose so many games early, that we are fighting for a decent seed in feb/mar. As we know anything worse than a 2/3 seed makes it extremely hard to win any tournament let alone the NC.
We have already lost 2 games to power 5 teams so we are already behind the 8 ball in dec.
[ 12-15-2021, 04:19 PM: Message edited by: ukcatfannfl ]
--------------------
ukcatfannfl
Posts: 8771 | From: Inverness, FL | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
catmandoo
Player
Member # 1284
|
posted 12-15-2021 04:59 PM
Beginning to look like a not so good year, keep waiting to see some improvement but none in sight.
[ 12-17-2021, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: catmandoo ]
--------------------
http://www.ukfightsong.com/
Posts: 186363 | From: st. augustine florida 32092 | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic