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Posted by WHO?UK (Member # 2286) on 05-30-2024, 01:40 PM:
It’s been said in here that this team will go .500 next year or at best 20-10. I can’t wait to have this conversation again next March.
This team will be special! Top 10 going into March is my prediction.
Posted by Bama Cat (Member # 153) on 05-30-2024, 09:43 PM:
...............IF? Most of them can duplicate what they done this past year. That will be a little hard to happen since they are all playing on the same team this year. Who will play like they've done before and get the biggest share of the PT? How many will not perform as in the past and get low PT? This will be a tricky season and will be a good job if he can keep everyone happy. I don't really see it happening, but will be over joyed if it does. If 8 of this 12 provide what is needed for them to get PT we will be fortunate. Can't wait! I would like for him to use the 13 pick for another good freshman that will be here for several years.
[ 05-30-2024, 09:46 PM: Message edited by: Bama Cat ]
Posted by ProBlue (Member # 2944) on 05-30-2024, 10:25 PM:
Bama Cat won't that be the same problem for ALL NIL teams to make the same adjustments ?
Posted by WHO?UK (Member # 2286) on 05-31-2024, 09:24 AM:
Pro blue
Exactly! The thing we have going for us is Pope likes to play 10-11 guys. He is the opposite of Cal and his 6-8 loyalty lineup. For example,Jaxon was his leading scorer at BYU and came off the bench for only 25 minutes a game. And it was said yesterday that Jaxon was locked in on Pope at UK all along if he pulled out of the draft. So when we look at keeping players happy I believe Pope already exhibited that skill set. We are also going to have kids with more mature egos as opposed to what Cal recruited. They will be way more likely to gel as a 10 man rotation.
Posted by Trey Ball (Member # 332) on 05-31-2024, 01:05 PM:
A few comments:
1. I am not sure that any team has ever won a championship using a 10 man rotation. Generally most teams will play 7 and sometimes 8. UCONN won last year playing basically a 6 man rotation. You want your best players on the court 35 minutes a game come tourney time in my opinion.
2. Not every team will deal with what UK has to deal with this year. They have zero players that have played together. You have only one player that has played in the system. That is a huge learning curve.
3. Maybe the most important and overlooked. Pope has done an incredible job of getting a roster together. That being said it is probably the 10th best roster in the SEC.
Bama/Auburn/Texas A&M/Tennessee/Arkansas/Florida/Ole Miss/Texas/Miss State all have better rosters than UK.
UK is probably right there with South Carolina/Georgia/Oklahoma/LSU and have a better roster than Missouri and Vanderbilt.
What does that mean? Every single game that UK plays will be competitive and every team will still consider UK their biggest game of the season and get the opponents best.
I still stick to being a 0.500 team or one or two games above or below that mark.
[ 05-31-2024, 01:06 PM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]
Posted by PaulCat (Member # 513) on 05-31-2024, 01:18 PM:
Well if UK is still contracted to opponents that Cal set up before he left, I'm sure 10 of our first 12 games will be cupcakes. All we have to do is go .500 in the SEC and we'll have a decent record.
Posted by Trey Ball (Member # 332) on 05-31-2024, 01:55 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by PaulCat:
Well if UK is still contracted to opponents that Cal set up before he left, I'm sure 10 of our first 12 games will be cupcakes. All we have to do is go .500 in the SEC and we'll have a decent record.
PC - I think going 0.500 in the SEC is a big if with the way the schedule landed. I would say 7-11 would be an average finish with maybe a 10-8 as a high and 5-13 as a low.
We also know UK will play Duke/Gonzaga/Ohio State in a neutral setting this year and then get either UNC or Clemson I would guess in the ACC/SEC Challenge and they have the game against Louisville and St. Johns and another 6 or 7 games yet to be released.
[ 05-31-2024, 11:04 PM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]
Posted by WHO?UK (Member # 2286) on 05-31-2024, 02:14 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by Trey Ball:
A few comments:
1. I am not sure that any team has ever won a championship using a 10 man rotation. Generally most teams will play 7 and sometimes 8. UCONN won last year playing basically a 6 man rotation. You want your best players on the court 35 minutes a game come tourney time in my opinion.
2. Not every team will deal with what UK has to deal with this year. They have zero players that have played together. You have only one player that has played in the system. That is a huge learning curve.
3. Maybe the most important and overlooked. Pope has done an incredible job of getting a roster together. That being said it is probably the 10th best roster in the SEC.
Bama/Auburn/Texas A&M/Tennessee/Arkansas/Florida/Ole Miss/Texas/Miss State all have better rosters than UK.
UK is probably right there with South Carolina/Georgia/Oklahoma/LSU and have a better roster than Missouri and Vanderbilt.
What does that mean? Every single game that UK plays will be competitive and every team will still consider UK their biggest game of the season and get the opponents best.
I still stick to being a 0.500 team or one or two games above or below that mark.
Trey I think you need some sunshine. This point of view is beyond pessimistic. 10th in the SEC by talent could not be further from the reality. Especially when, Andy Katz and the rest of the national analysts are placing UK in the top 25. Also in this era most teams are turning over the majority of their key pieces each year. UK and Arkansas will be unique in turning over the entirety of its rosters but that doesn’t place them in .500 category.
Posted by Trey Ball (Member # 332) on 05-31-2024, 02:47 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by WHO?UK:
quote:
Originally posted by Trey Ball:
A few comments:
1. I am not sure that any team has ever won a championship using a 10 man rotation. Generally most teams will play 7 and sometimes 8. UCONN won last year playing basically a 6 man rotation. You want your best players on the court 35 minutes a game come tourney time in my opinion.
2. Not every team will deal with what UK has to deal with this year. They have zero players that have played together. You have only one player that has played in the system. That is a huge learning curve.
3. Maybe the most important and overlooked. Pope has done an incredible job of getting a roster together. That being said it is probably the 10th best roster in the SEC.
Bama/Auburn/Texas A&M/Tennessee/Arkansas/Florida/Ole Miss/Texas/Miss State all have better rosters than UK.
UK is probably right there with South Carolina/Georgia/Oklahoma/LSU and have a better roster than Missouri and Vanderbilt.
What does that mean? Every single game that UK plays will be competitive and every team will still consider UK their biggest game of the season and get the opponents best.
I still stick to being a 0.500 team or one or two games above or below that mark.
Trey I think you need some sunshine. This point of view is beyond pessimistic. 10th in the SEC by talent could not be further from the reality. Especially when, Andy Katz and the rest of the national analysts are placing UK in the top 25. Also in this era most teams are turning over the majority of their key pieces each year. UK and Arkansas will be unique in turning over the entirety of its rosters but that doesn’t place them in .500 category.
Not pessimistic at all....more like realistic. You do realize that there are currently 9 teams from the SEC ranked in the pre-season Top 25 on ESPN/CBS/etc and Kentucky is not one of them, which I would agree.
Andy Katz rankings are ridiculous in my opinion. There is a reason he has gotten let go from ESPN/CBS/Yahoo..... and now only finds employment at NCAA.COM.
Posted by ProBlue (Member # 2944) on 05-31-2024, 06:12 PM:
WHO?UK If am not mistaken Duke lost most of it's team also. I think a lot of teams did. I think we got as much chance as anyone else.Also Trey Being pessimistic isn't good for the Heart. LOL !
Posted by WHO?UK (Member # 2286) on 05-31-2024, 07:45 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by WHO?UK:
quote:
Originally posted by Trey Ball:
A few comments:
1. I am not sure that any team has ever won a championship using a 10 man rotation. Generally most teams will play 7 and sometimes 8. UCONN won last year playing basically a 6 man rotation. You want your best players on the court 35 minutes a game come tourney time in my opinion.
2. Not every team will deal with what UK has to deal with this year. They have zero players that have played together. You have only one player that has played in the system. That is a huge learning curve.
3. Maybe the most important and overlooked. Pope has done an incredible job of getting a roster together. That being said it is probably the 10th best roster in the SEC.
Bama/Auburn/Texas A&M/Tennessee/Arkansas/Florida/Ole Miss/Texas/Miss State all have better rosters than UK.
UK is probably right there with South Carolina/Georgia/Oklahoma/LSU and have a better roster than Missouri and Vanderbilt.
What does that mean? Every single game that UK plays will be competitive and every team will still consider UK their biggest game of the season and get the opponents best.
I still stick to being a 0.500 team or one or two games above or below that mark.
Trey I think you need some sunshine. This point of view is beyond pessimistic. 10th in the SEC by talent could not be further from the reality. Especially when, Andy Katz and the rest of the national analysts are placing UK in the top 25. Also in this era most teams are turning over the majority of their key pieces each year. UK and Arkansas will be unique in turning over the entirety of its rosters but that doesn’t place them in .500 category.
I guess all these guys are ridiculous too.
Posted by Tiptree (Member # 844) on 05-31-2024, 08:35 PM:
I am OK with any outcome as long as they play with effort and heart, play for the University, and play exciting basketball.
I think assembling a roster of veteran players is going to lead to better outcomes this year than an all-freshman roster would. So that is a plus. But, the challenges are similar... none of these guys have played together, and only one of them have played for Mark Pope.
Oh, and ZERO of them have played with the pressure that being at UK brings, nor played in the exceptionally hostile environments of road games in the SEC. Nothing can really prepare you for that much hate, coupled with the expectations that, we, the fans, have for our team.
So, my expectations are low, but the ceiling is high. Let's have fun watching Pope's first team play, shall we?
Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 05-31-2024, 08:55 PM:
As usual, I’m confused. Wasn’t one of the big complaints about Cal was him not starting his best players, Shepherd and Dillingham?
How is that different that Pope not starting Robinson?
I also agree with Trey. I don’t think this team will win much over 50% of their games and are unlikely to be in the tournament. I just think this is going to take 2 or 3 years to get to where we all want to be. I believe Pope will get us there, we just need to be patient and not have unrealistic expectations. Of course that’s the opinion of a confused old man.
[ 05-31-2024, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: handycat ]
Posted by Bama Cat (Member # 153) on 05-31-2024, 10:44 PM:
I tend to think that a whole lot of teams are in the same shoes as UK. A lot of team picked up transfer players and who knows how their kids will perform, we just have a lot more transfers than most teams. It will be interesting to see which ones perform as expected. We may finish at 50-50 on the W/L record but there will be a lot of teams having the same problem, but someone has to win each game, so why not us. I wonder who will be the starters after practice begins. Who will surprise us and perform better than they did in the past. There are way too many unpredictables in play this year to make any bold statements about any school.
Posted by Trey Ball (Member # 332) on 05-31-2024, 10:56 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by WHO?UK:
quote:
Originally posted by WHO?UK:
quote:
Originally posted by Trey Ball:
A few comments:
1. I am not sure that any team has ever won a championship using a 10 man rotation. Generally most teams will play 7 and sometimes 8. UCONN won last year playing basically a 6 man rotation. You want your best players on the court 35 minutes a game come tourney time in my opinion.
2. Not every team will deal with what UK has to deal with this year. They have zero players that have played together. You have only one player that has played in the system. That is a huge learning curve.
3. Maybe the most important and overlooked. Pope has done an incredible job of getting a roster together. That being said it is probably the 10th best roster in the SEC.
Bama/Auburn/Texas A&M/Tennessee/Arkansas/Florida/Ole Miss/Texas/Miss State all have better rosters than UK.
UK is probably right there with South Carolina/Georgia/Oklahoma/LSU and have a better roster than Missouri and Vanderbilt.
What does that mean? Every single game that UK plays will be competitive and every team will still consider UK their biggest game of the season and get the opponents best.
I still stick to being a 0.500 team or one or two games above or below that mark.
Trey I think you need some sunshine. This point of view is beyond pessimistic. 10th in the SEC by talent could not be further from the reality. Especially when, Andy Katz and the rest of the national analysts are placing UK in the top 25. Also in this era most teams are turning over the majority of their key pieces each year. UK and Arkansas will be unique in turning over the entirety of its rosters but that doesn’t place them in .500 category.
I guess all these guys are ridiculous too.
In my opinion....Yes. You can go back on TCD and find my thoughts on Goodman through the years. A complete tool in my opinion and I have never heard of Aaron Torres, but this is no where near a Top 15 roster. There are ZERO pro's on this roster in my opinion, which you need Pro's to have a top 15 roster.
[ 05-31-2024, 11:02 PM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]
Posted by Trey Ball (Member # 332) on 05-31-2024, 10:59 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by handycat:
As usual, I’m confused. Wasn’t one of the big complaints about Cal was him not starting his best players, Shepherd and Dillingham?
How is that different that Pope not starting Robinson?
I also agree with Trey. I don’t think this team will win much over 50% of their games and are unlikely to be in the tournament. I just think this is going to take 2 or 3 years to get to where we all want to be. I believe Pope will get us there, we just need to be patient and not have unrealistic expectations. Of course that’s the opinion of a confused old man.
That is my assessment as well. I have full confidence that Pope will get UK there, but not next year
Posted by Bama Cat (Member # 153) on 06-01-2024, 08:24 PM:
I know that what has happened prior to next season may not occur this coming season, but.........if all those totals each player had last year were to be repeated........would it be enough to make the final four?? Just a little food for thought...........even though I know the chances of that happening would be great.
Posted by ukman (Member # 3032) on 06-02-2024, 07:34 PM:
I will be happy with an above .500 record and a team that is playing their best at the end of the season. If that happens I will consider it a successful season. I'm super excited to see some coaching take place. You know, offensive sets, in game adjustments, defensive strategies, game plans, scouting, etc. I think Pope will be a real good coach, but we really won't know until we see him in action against top flight teams, and over some time. I think it was great that BYU was in the Big 12 last year as that gave him a taste of the competition. I am very optimistic for the future.
Posted by WHO?UK (Member # 2286) on 06-03-2024, 08:00 AM:
Just like Coach Pope said. "Im not lowering my expectations and neither should we. I understand the assignment."
Posted by Trey Ball (Member # 332) on 06-03-2024, 02:44 PM:
WHO?UK,
So what is your record prediction for the regular season then assuming UK plays 31 games (13 non conference and 18 conference games)
I assume since you think they will be Top 10 that would be a regular season record of 25-6 to 27-4?
Which games do you think they lose?
[ 06-03-2024, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]
Posted by PaulCat (Member # 513) on 06-03-2024, 04:01 PM:
Unlike Cal, and much like Pitino, I think Mark Pope will be a great motivator. Was it Pitino's second season when we won the SEC after being predicted to finish last? I think motivation goes a long way, and we've got that now.
Posted by rlt4uk (Member # 3194) on 06-03-2024, 09:05 PM:
I think we finish 23-8,regular season. We win the sec tournament and lose in the elite 8. That would be a great season.
Posted by Bama Cat (Member # 153) on 06-03-2024, 09:58 PM:
If we play to our past records I think that is possible. There would sure be some disappointed SEC teams if we did.
[ 06-03-2024, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: Bama Cat ]
Posted by WHO?UK (Member # 2286) on 06-05-2024, 07:18 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Trey Ball:
WHO?UK,
So what is your record prediction for the regular season then assuming UK plays 31 games (13 non conference and 18 conference games)
I assume since you think they will be Top 10 that would be a regular season record of 25-6 to 27-4?
Which games do you think they lose?
I see them going 3-1 in their big out of conference games against Duke, Zags, OSU and potentially UNC.
Drop two randomly in catch me games.
Drop 2-3 in the SEC. To the likes a split with Alabama and UT.
A&M, Florida, Auburn and Arkansas are all Home games so I expect us to win those. But we definitely drop 1 or 2.
Texas away is a tough one because they are away but Coach Pope and Coach Feuger should already have a head start on scouting them out.
So yes I can see them very easily going 25-6 or 27-4.
I don’t think the learning curve for Coach Pope system is going to be that high. He is extremely intelligent. His staff is phenomenal. Almost all of his players are veteran transfers and should have the ability to pick it up and help others who are struggling.
This crop is different where 3-4 of our studs are not 18 years old. Also we don’t have Cal waiting for camp Cal to really turn it on because he doesn’t want to overload an 18 year old.
Just where I’m at.
[ 06-06-2024, 09:52 AM: Message edited by: WHO?UK ]
Posted by Tiptree (Member # 844) on 06-05-2024, 10:16 AM:
Who?uk,
I can agree with much of your words. I DO think that having a roster of 90% 5th-year players allows the coaching staff to push them hard and expect more of them. And I do like his offensive scheme. It is very much aligned with the modern game, and exploits space and movement very, very effectively.
But the downsides are equally plain. Despite their veteran status, none of them are veterans in Pope's system. They may be battle-hardened, but they will all (but one) come in and learn a new system from scratch. Standing back, and looking at it honestly, teaching a new system to 23-year-olds is only marginally easier than doing so to 18-year-olds.
Plus, there is a difference between being battle-tested at Dayton and playing under the microscope at Kentucky. Rightly or wrongly, we expect more of our players on every play. How many times have YOU stood up and shouted in frustration when a player misses an assignment, or makes a turnover, or misses a shot? They will be put to the test, for sure, in ways they never had to face before, both by hostile foes and "friendly" fans. And, most of the time, that test will be televised for a national audience.
Lastly, while Pope has worked his a$$ off pulling in players to build a team, quite honestly, most of them don't really give me the warm fuzzies. I would say that we are going to put a bunch of veteran, second-tier players into the maelstrom next year.
So, my expectations are lower. Maybe somewhere between yours and Trey's. I would be delighted if we finish the regular season 18-13. But, honestly, I am prepared for 16-15, or worse. The SEC is VERY strong, and teams are always eager to hang an "L" on their old nemesis, Kentucky.
[ 06-05-2024, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: Tiptree ]
Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 06-05-2024, 11:43 AM:
Tip says:
“Lastly, while Pope has worked his a$$ off pulling in players to build a team, quite honestly, most of them don't really give me the warm fuzzies. I would say that we are going to put a bunch of veteran, second-tier players into the maelstrom next year.”
That’s exactly how I feel only worded better. His statement below pretty well aligns with my expectations and I would be ok with those results.
“So, my expectations are lower. Maybe somewhere between yours and Trey's. I would be delighted if we finish the regular season 18-13. But, honestly, I am prepared for 16-15, or worse. The SEC is VERY strong, and teams are always eager to hang an "L" on their old nemesis, Kentucky.”
P S: Not sure what a “maelstrom” is. Maybe a large tornado with big hail in it?
[ 06-05-2024, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: handycat ]
Posted by m hamilton (Member # 127) on 06-06-2024, 05:53 AM:
Not too sure, but I think a maelstrom goes along with the song, "It's raining men". LOL
Posted by Tiptree (Member # 844) on 06-06-2024, 11:32 AM:
You guys need to get your Dutch going. According to ChatGPT4o:
quote:
The word "maelstrom" refers to a powerful whirlpool in the sea or a river. It can also be used metaphorically to describe a situation or state of confused movement or violent turmoil.
Etymology:
The etymology of "maelstrom" is fascinating, as it comes from Dutch origins. The word itself can be traced back to early modern Dutch, combining "malen" meaning "to grind" and "stroom" meaning "stream." The term was originally used to describe the Moskstraumen, a powerful tidal current off the Norwegian coast in the Arctic Ocean, which was notorious for its whirlpools. The name was likely a reference to the grinding action of the swirling waters.
The word was popularized in English by authors such as Edgar Allan Poe and Jules Verne, who used it to describe similar phenomena in their literary works, thus broadening its usage beyond the specific geographic feature. This helped cement its meaning in English as not only a natural phenomenon but also a descriptor for chaotic or turbulent situations.
So, confused, grinding, turmoil, chaos, whirlpool... you get it. Just like playing in the SEC.
Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 06-06-2024, 01:45 PM:
What does etymology mean? Asking for a friend (mhamilton). Pretty sure it’s someone who studies bugs.
[ 06-06-2024, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: handycat ]
Posted by m hamilton (Member # 127) on 06-06-2024, 02:28 PM:
That's entomology, isn't it?
Posted by Tiptree (Member # 844) on 06-06-2024, 05:39 PM:
Must have been a different friend
Etymology is the study of word origins. Pretty cool stuff, but a bit geeky.
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