quote:

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Originally posted by ProBlue:
If he goes to the Lakers and U Conn needs a coach bet Cal is kicking himself for jumping the gun to Ark.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ProBlue:
If he goes to the Lakers and U Conn needs a coach bet Cal is kicking himself for jumping the gun to Ark.

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Originally posted by Trey Ball:

quote:

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Originally posted by ProBlue:
If he goes to the Lakers and U Conn needs a coach bet Cal is kicking himself for jumping the gun to Ark.

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The Arkansas job is about 1000% better than the UCONN job.

UCONN has to get themselves into the ACC/Big 10/SEC or they are going to be left behind with the new Pay for Play in College Athletics and I am sure Danny Hurley knows that. He may choose to stay because they can make a run again next year, but after that it is going to get much more difficult because they only get around $4.5 Million per year from the Big East....Whereas the SEC schools get $51.3 Million.

Arkansas doesn't even have to worry about creating a collective with their three Multi Billionaire backers.

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Originally posted by Trey Ball:
I side with the courts and the kids on this.....They absolutely should be getting paid. College Ahtletics is a multi billion dollar business based upon the athletic gifts of the participants.

Without the participants there would not be a multi billion dollar business.

Ask yourself this....Are you willing to work for free? If you answer yes, then I can understand your view. If you answer no, I am not sure how you can have any other view than they should be paid.

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Originally posted by PaulCat:
As far as I remember, basketball is an extra-curricular activity. It's not work.

If a kid doesn't like that schools are making money, they can always drop out and really go to work.

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Originally posted by Tiptree:
Nope. Not buying it. I am way too traditional and simple-minded for this.

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Well, the courts have all disagreed and even the NCAA disagrees and that is why the NCAA agreed to the $2.9 Billion dollar settlement to "Pay" players. The NCAA could see they were going to lose all of those court cases and it was going to be catastrophic if they did. Instead $2.9 Billion is not catastrophic they have deemed due to the revenue they make off of these kids backs.

The NCAA is hoping by paying players for the past 10 years and in the future the law makers will decides those student athletes are not employees, but that is yet to be determined.

But at the end of the day the NCAA and the courts both know the NCAA has been wrong for many years and this settlement is the first step in fixing that.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/40322936/antitrust-set tlement-creates-certainty-new-system

[ 06-10-2024, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]
 

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Posted by Trey Ball (Member # 332) on 06-10-2024, 10:09 PM:
 
It was only a matter of time before this was going to happen and I believe they should win as well.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/ _/id/40322068/1983-nc-state-title-team-members-sue-ncaa-nil-compensation

Laettner/Duke and Kentucky kids from 1992 should be next to file suit.

[ 06-10-2024, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]
 

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Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 06-11-2024, 07:22 AM:
 
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. I want to go back to the old days where everyone just cheated and tried to beat the system. This is just BS having everything out in the open for everyone to see.

[ 06-11-2024, 07:55 AM: Message edited by: handycat ]
 

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Posted by PaulCat (Member # 513) on 06-11-2024, 07:48 AM:
 
Girl Scout cookies can bring in $800million annually. I wonder how much money those young girls are getting...
 

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Posted by Trey Ball (Member # 332) on 06-11-2024, 10:00 AM:
 

quote:

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Originally posted by handycat:
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. I want to go back to the old days where everyone just cheated and tried to beat the system. This is just BS having everything out in the open for everyone to see.

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LMAO!
 

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Posted by ukman (Member # 3032) on 06-11-2024, 10:41 PM:
 
Amen Tip! Again, I have no problem with the kids getting paid for an appearance, doing a commercial, signing memorabilia, etc. But they should not be getting "paid" for playing basketball for the university. Their pay is the $30,000-$40,000 tuition they are getting.
 

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Posted by Trey Ball (Member # 332) on 06-11-2024, 11:11 PM:
 

quote:

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Originally posted by ukman:
But they should not be getting "paid" for playing basketball for the university.

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Originally posted by Trey Ball:

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Originally posted by ukman:
But they should not be getting "paid" for playing basketball for the university.

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I understand what you guys are saying about how you feel. Just know that once the NCAA Settled for $2.9 Billion.........players will be paid now and into the future. The courts basically told the NCAA to settle or not exist because they were going to lose the cases on the merits of the law. The NCAA got off "cheap" with the $2.9 Billion settlement going back 10 years and are in the process of figure out how to pay athletes going forward.

It's a done deal that athletes will be paid and not paid just NIL.

I just happen to be on the other end of many of the opinions on here and believe they should be paid. Anyone that thinks that players at the Blue Blood schools for the last 45 years have been playing secondary and the "education" they were getting was primary is kidding themselves.

They were just "paid below the table" professionals for a long time. Now they will be paid above the table.

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Originally posted by ukman:
IF I am an employee of a company and come up with some great invention, or idea for them, they are going to be the one making the most money.

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Originally posted by ukman:
I know there was underhanded stuff all along, but it typically wasn't millions of dollars, or hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's here to stay, I just hate it.

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Originally posted by Trey Ball:
Slavery was abolished in this country in 1865......unless you happened to be a collegiate athlete....."collegiate slavery" will be abolished in 2025 FINALLY.

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Trey, I'm starting to think that we took different history classes in high school. I'm pretty sure that back in 1865 Mr. and Mrs. Peabody weren't providing their slaves a free college education, excellent shoes and clothing, free airfare/travel when they were loaned out to other slave farms, top of the line boarding houses, as well as all the extras that come with being a college athlete (such as strippers and - oh wait, that was just Louisville). Also, and I think this might be important - they probably didn't provide a choice. I respect just about everything you post on this board, but to compare college athletics to slavery??? C'mon, bro.
 

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Posted by WHO?UK (Member # 2286) on 06-13-2024, 09:27 AM:
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Trey Ball:

quote:

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Originally posted by ukman:
IF I am an employee of a company and come up with some great invention, or idea for them, they are going to be the one making the most money.

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A couple of huge points that are a big difference between being an employee at a company selling a product to an end consumer vs. what the NCAA has been doing for years in my opinion.

1. You would be an employee of said company. The NCAA is ADAMENT that the athletes are not employees and want to keep it that way.

2. Your company more than likely sells a product or a service that does not involve you as the "main" ingredient in such product or service.

Without the athletes the NCAA has absolutely nothing to sell.

So the NCAA has said for years. You are not an employee and should not be paid because of such, but "YOU" Mr./Mrs. Athletes ARE the product I am selling and you get none of that as well.

It is absolutely ludicrous that they NCAA was allowed to make BILLIONS per year and not pay the athletes. Slavery was abolished in this country in 1865......unless you happened to be a collegiate athlete....."collegiate slavery" will be abolished in 2025 FINALLY.

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It is absolutely ludicrous that they NCAA was allowed to make BILLIONS per year and not pay the athletes. Slavery was abolished in this country in 1865......unless you happened to be a collegiate athlete....."collegiate slavery" will be abolished in 2025 FINALLY.
Oh, come on, Trey. Really???? Students are not slaves. There is nothing they do that is not 100% voluntary. Playing the "slavery" card is just ridiculous, and now opens up the whole race-baiting thing.

quote:
I would also say you would be surprised at the amount of money that was changing hands among the top colleges and athletes.

My collegiate roommate at Ball State University was a high jumper on the track and field team and was pulling down $10k per year from "boosters" from 1988 to 1992. A high jumper on a MAC track team. Crazy stuff at a small school. I sometimes use a consultant at work. He played football for Miss State from 1972 to 1975. He got paid back then to play. Received a new car his first day on campus at Miss State. He was recruited by Alabama and Coach Bryant and has told me a story about keeping the change of $100 bill after Bear Bryant had him go get Coke's for them to talk. Told him to keep the change and if he came to Bama that would be in his mailbox everyday.

Watch the Johnny Manziel special. He was rolling in Cash at Texas A&M, the Fab Five at Michigan were as well. Watch "The Scheme" and you will just see how much money was changing hands and how it was going down.

Think about it, the FBI got involved because of the amount of money that was changing hands under the table. The Scheme goes into detail on how they wanted to entrap the coaches to make it a Federal offense but Christian Watkins would not give any of them up and went to prison himself. He did alright though because he kept all of the money the dirty FBI agent had given him.
So, your argument is saying "Well, everybody was cheating anyway, so let's just make it legal".

Hmmm... so, if enough people engage in illegal activity, it should just be OK? Or, more than OK, sanctioned?

Nope. Not for me. I will exit this debate, but it seems you are speaking from "what is", and I am speaking from "what should be". I categorically reject the idea of paying college athletes on principle that, in fact (as the NCAA insists), they are not employees.

In fact, I would argue that the reason that the NCAA is willing to do this is to divert the attention away from the real corruption, which is within the NCAA itself. What is the mission of the NCAA? Who controls it? How much money does it need to accomplish its mission?

THOSE are questions that should be looked into.

Lastly, as ukman suggested, what the courts ruled was that students should be able to make money off of their name, image, and likeness. I am 100% OK with that. But that is VERY DIFFERENT from what it rapidly evolved to, which is essentially allowing billionaires to legally pool money to implement a pay-for-play system. It isn't tied to selling licensed t-shirts or gear or making TV commercials. It is now an unregulated playground for the uber-wealthy. And, if you want to go back to your 'slavery' concept, are not students now being bought?

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quote:

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Originally posted by ukman:
I There also need to be a cap system put in place.

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quote:

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’m thinking seriously about becoming a girls beach volleyball fan.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Tiptree:
... and now it suddenly has become its own entity, a world only loosely connected with the university.

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Tip,

I understand your view better now. I will just say that I don't think I would say "suddenly has become it's own entity, a world only loosely connected with the university.

I think College Sports has been it's own entity for decades. Athletics and Academics have been loosely connected since the late 1980's. It just was never official.

So for my point of view I would say "Officially" vs. Suddenly.

Now that schools can tie payments to players above board vs underhanded, maybe they can entice kids to stay longer at one University vs. going pro after a year or hopping to another school via the transfer portal.

Just a thought.

[ 06-14-2024, 07:31 PM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]
 

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Posted by Tiptree (Member # 844) on 06-14-2024, 09:17 PM:
 
I guess I would rather see "Kentucky Sports, Inc", and have the university sell the entire for-profit sports complex to the new entitity, lock, stock, and barrel.

Commonwealth Stadium. Memorial Colleseum. The "Friends of Coal" practice facility. Sold. The leasing rights to Rupp Arena, transferred. Kentucky Sports, Inc. would operate the basketball and football programs with no legal tie to the university.

If the rot doesn't affect the rest of the sports, keep them. It it does, sell them and their facilities to Kentucky Sports, Inc.

Then let the university get on with its mission, and let the sports business go on with theirs.
 

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Posted by Trey Ball (Member # 332) on 06-15-2024, 10:03 AM:
 
Got it. It is complete different discussion, but I think Universities and Colleges today are the biggest ripoff for kids and parents. So I view the educational side and the athletic side of Universities in the same light. They are both shams.

The so called "education" that I see kids getting vs. the price paid is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion for most professions.

I think a lot of professions would be better off to stop requiring college degrees and move to the apprenticeship route. I will use my field of study as an example: Business in general, but more specifically Accounting/Finance and my son's recently completed degree in Risk Management and Insurance.

I have a kid that has worked for me for two years straight out of high school that I would put his accounting and finance knowledge up against any recent graduate with a BS in Accounting/Finance and it cost him $0 dollars vs. $100k to $250k.....instead he made over $100k during those two years.

My son worked for two years in high school at a local Insurance Firm through a program sponsored by his high school, same program that I got my apprentice. He didn't feel as though he was learning anything new in his field of major classes and the "general education classes "required to graduate" (those are just a money grab for the universities and I have felt that way since I was in school he took in high school for nearly nothing) so he was able to graduate in three years.

My daughter, who was an average student in high school, is having the same experience at a pretty prestigious private school in the state known for their "Academics". She is an athlete, getting a minimal "athletic scholarship" for a degree from said university that is going to set her back $225k to go into a profession where she can make $50k max.

So I am looking forward to see what she is going to get "paid" in 2025 for her Athletic Gifts that said University is utilizing for their financial gain to help her pay for her sham of a degree.

If you can't tell I am very soured on higher education and have been for quite a many years and it has been validated, for me and my circumstances, with my two children.

[ 06-15-2024, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]
 

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Posted by Tiptree (Member # 844) on 06-17-2024, 01:21 PM:
 
Yes, yes, and yes.

Higher education has become "mainstreamed", thus dumbed down and bloated. When the US Goverment took over student loans, the dreaded "third party payer" system spurred massive price increases, just as health insurance did in health care. And now, the price of an education is simply ridiculous. I know, I kept the state of California solvent for 6 years as my two daughters paid a quarter-of-a-million dollars each for the "privilege" of being brainwashed.

Now, I am NOT opposed to higher education; I am basically an academic, and my wife is a physics professor. But I agree that if your goal is to learn a skill for employment, apprenticeship or community/vocational school is a FAR better route. Some skills may still require more (engineering, the sciences, law, medicine), but most jobs should not require a college degree. It is the skills that are needed, not the degree, and skills are best learned by direct observation and practice, not in a classroom.

But, there is value in getting a broad, general education. In fact, if the high schools were like they were 50 years ago, most of us would be better informed citizens capable of weighing the issues facing society with no thought of going to college. As it stands, our high schools teach surpringly little history or civics any more. Both of my daughters have no idea about history, except "socialism good, America bad". Oh, and the colleges teach more of the same.

IMO, about 20% of the people would benefit from a college degree, and less than 2% from graduate study. And unless they are pursuing a career in STEM, medicine, or law, they should not expect their education to be anything other than a way to understand this world a bit better. Their vocation will benefit from that, but not be launched by it.

There are over 3,000 colleges and universities in America. At least 2,000 of them need to close their doors; they are only around because of the gravy train of government loans, which obviates the need to provide old-fashioned grants and work-study to needy students (like I was). Now, the goverment shovels money to the students, who pay it to the colleges, and then the students are financially crippled for the rest of their lives, burdened by the equivalent a house payment with no house to live in.

It has to stop. It WILL stop. Eventually the whole paradigm will collapse, along with some familiar institutions that nobody will be able to afford.
 

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Posted by Bama Cat (Member # 153) on 06-18-2024, 10:59 PM:
 
My grandaughter is a good example of how it should be done. Not sure of where she is getting them but she has finished her 3rd year and she owes no money. She has received grants from different places which has covered her staying at home and going to EKU. Got her sister starting in August and she is even smarter than her sister and has already secured enough grants to cover her schooling also.
 

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