TheCatsDomain.Com Message Boards: It's The Talent Level

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Posted by prophet (Member # 2089) on 10-28-2007, 11:32 AM:

For quite a while "It's the talent level, stupid" was my sig on TCD. It referred to basketball but after observing much college football over the last several weeks I opine that the same can be said for UK FB. First let me say there is no doubt that the athletic talent level on the UK roster today is hugely improved over what it was just a few years ago and looks to be continuing the trend. Yet in comparing the roster-wide talent to that of other top teams it is rather obvious to me that the talent deficit remains and is significant. It is equally obvious that there are certain positions and individual players where the Cats have the edge (Woodson being the prime example) but roster-wide (taking the 2/3-deep for offense and defense for example) the Cats have considerable ground to make up in the athleticism category if they are to compete effectively in SEC and nationally. In the remaining 3 games UK will be athletically overmatched teamwise by UGA and UT with, considering everyone is reasonably healthy, an athletic advantage over Vandy.

Accepting (I don't expect many will) that conclusion, it is remarkable, and a tribute to coaches and players, that Cats have been as successful as they have been this year. The talent deficit requires an abnormally high level of focus and determination to compensate, and those attributes were missing Saturday (as they were to some extent against USC); not unexpected coming after such intense performances against LSU and UF. The big question is: Can the coaches and team regain and retain the mental and emotional focus? The answer will determine whether UK will finish 9-3 or 6-6, but talent level alone would indicate 7-5.

Posted by Knoxville Cat (Member # 2891) on 10-28-2007, 01:38 PM:

It all starts with recruiting, which is something I'm just not that proud of over the past several years. Even a couple of years ago, when we got Micah and Corey Peters, we finished 10th out of 12 in the SEC. I have always said, and will continue to say, that finishing 10th in the conference in recruiting WILL NOT win you championships or competing for the SEC on a year in/year out basis. I have people tell me, "Well, stars don't really matter, look at this year's senior class, they were not 5 stars." Yeah, I see this year's class still being 5th in the East above Vandy and probably finishing 7-5. You can't win the Kentucky Derby with a pony. When you see top recruiting classes on a year in/year out basis, those are usually the schools competing for titles.

I understand we're not going to get a lot of 5 stars and outrecruit the Floridas, Georgias, and Tennessees, but don't expect to beat those schools much. We haven't Florida and UT the past 20+ years. I still say we should finish at least middle of the road in recruiting in the SEC and not get outrecruited by schools like Arkansas, Ole Miss, and South Carolina. That's not asking too much. If you don't recruit Top 25 classes, don't expect to be a Top 25 team.

Posted by Knoxville Cat (Member # 2891) on 10-28-2007, 01:50 PM:

You can't expect a team made up of 2 & 3 star players to beat a team made up of 4 & 5 star players. That's why Tennessee has beat us 23 straight years, Florida has beat us 21 straight years, heck, South Carolina has beat us 8 straight years. We beat Georgia last year, so what? That makes Brooks 1-15 against those 4 schools since he's been at UK. Recruiting is the key, always has been, always will be.

Posted by LouisvilleCat (Member # 2679) on 10-28-2007, 04:38 PM:

Knox, are you forgetting that this is only the second year since probation we have a full roster? Are you forgetting that, even though UK won, LSU beat the hell out of the team? Then Florida coming in and hurt even more? We even lost Locke in the MSU game.

Lyons is not 100%, Burton did not play, Tamme is not 100%, Smith is not 100%. Then we have the running backs. Until yesterday we had only 2 running backs that were 100%, both of which are true freshman.

You have to realize that with all those players out and/or just hurting that our defensive and offensive lines have to be equally hurt and beat up. That makes a big difference when it comes to play execution.

UK has a bye week this week, wish it would have been the week after the LSU game, and with that time off we will hopefully get back all the players that are out from injuries and the ones that are hurt will be healthy again and ready for the last 3 games.

In short, don't give up on the football team just yet. They have the players to still win out the last of the games. Just gotta get them healed.

Posted by Old Norm (Member # 1482) on 10-28-2007, 06:50 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Knoxville Cat:
I still say we should finish at least middle of the road in recruiting in the SEC and not get outrecruited by schools like Arkansas, Ole Miss, and South Carolina. That's not asking too much.

Are you kidding me? I'm not sure about USC, but Arkansas and Mississippi live and breathe football. I was stationed in Arkansas for nearly seven years. Those people never had heard of a 'round' ball! Arkansas was in the Southwest Athletic Conference then, and those people LIVED for the Hogs and the Arkansas Texas game. I've even seen places of business shut down for that game!

Posted by Knoxville Cat (Member # 2891) on 10-28-2007, 07:35 PM:

First off, this being our 2nd year off of probation, which only meant fewer schollies to give, has nothing to do with how we've finished in recruiting. The past two years, we've had just as many schollies as anybody, signing roughly 28 two years ago. Finishing 10th out of 12 is not going to get it done. As far as Arkansas and Ole Miss go, are you saying that because they "breathe football" they should outrecruit us and that's okay? I could care less if they "breathe football"? Do you think Ohio State and Florida "breathe basketball"? No. Yet they are killing the recruiting trails in basketball right now. Schools like Florida and Ohio State prove you can be successful in two sports. UK has the facilities and fan base to be a successful football school, but as long as we keep signing 2 & 3 stars, with hopes of one 4 star in a class, then we're always going to be mediocre. That's just a fact. Right now, we're like 80th in recruiting for next year, while Ole Miss is 24th. On our prospect list, we have like two 4 stars as our highest rated prospects. Go on over and look at what Georgia and Florida have coming in. Expect to finish 5th in the East on a yearly basis, because we can outrecruit Vanderbilt.

Posted by Knoxville Cat (Member # 2891) on 10-28-2007, 07:40 PM:

Ole Miss doesn't have the stadium or facilities UK has in football, so I can't accept them outrecruiting us. Sorry. And furthermore, Arkansas has never heard of "roundball"? They've been to 6 Final Fours and won the NCAA Championship in 1994. I would think they've heard of basketball.

[ 10-28-2007, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: Knoxville Cat ]

Posted by Old Norm (Member # 1482) on 10-28-2007, 08:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Knoxville Cat:
And furthermore, Arkansas has never heard of "roundball"? They've been to 6 Final Fours and won the NCAA Championship in 1994. I would think they've heard of basketball.

I said "never HAD heard". I was stationed there from 1967 through 1971, and again from 1975 until 1977 when I retired. How many of those six final fours fell within that time period.

Don't talk down to me like I am an idiot. I'm old enough to be your grandfather. The world didn't start 20 or 30 years ago.

[ 10-28-2007, 08:41 PM: Message edited by: Old Norm ]

Posted by Knoxville Cat (Member # 2891) on 10-28-2007, 09:16 PM:

I didn't talk down to you and whether or not you're old enough to be my grandfather is beside the point. I didn't curse and I didn't say anything inappropriate. This is a message board and people should be able to speak their minds as long as it's appropriate. I'm not going to apologize for backing up my argument. You didn't specify which years you were stationed, and upon further research, 4 of the 6 Final Fours have came since you were there. You said 7 years, not specifically which years. I could understand feelings getting hurt if there was name-calling involved.

Posted by LouisvilleCat (Member # 2679) on 10-29-2007, 11:25 AM:

quote:
First off, this being our 2nd year off of probation, which only meant fewer schollies to give, has nothing to do with how we've finished in recruiting.

That has everything to do with it. It is a big catch-22. UK could only recruit in state while on probation. The team roster numbers were cut which limited recruiting even farther. The great players are not even going to look at you if you can not win. If you don't have any scholarships, the great players are not even going to consider you since they can and will get a free ride almost anywhere else.

Now that the program is off probation and we are back to a full roster the coaching staff can recruit the players they want, not the player that they had to settle for.

Look at the overall improvement in the football team. There is a huge difference this year than the past 4 years. The difference is (to steal the title of the post) THE TALENT LEVEL. You get the scholarships and the wins and the talent will come.

Posted by Knoxville Cat (Member # 2891) on 10-29-2007, 04:39 PM:

I see your point in regards to a recruit not going to a school on probation if that school could not go to a bowl game, but a few less schollies doesn't hinder who you offer. If the staff chose to offer too many 2 stars and ran out of schollies, then of course a 4 star won't commit to walk-on. A school can sign only 17-18 kids and still finish above another school who signs 25-26 kids. It's all about the caliber of player you recruit. Look at this year. We only have two 4 star players even on our prospect list while schools like Georgia and Florida already have 5 stars committed. Tennessee and South Carolina already have three 4 stars committed a piece. It looks like we'll be lucky to get one 4 star committed in the class. How do expect to compete for the East when we're getting beat annually in recruiting by the East schools except Vanderbilt? Probabtion is not an excuse anymore. As for this year's senior class, we're 5th in the East, right above ole' Vandy again. We're not having a monumental season people. We have one great win over LSU and a couple of mediocre wins over sub-par opponents in Louisville and Arkansas. I mean, there are murals for sale on UK's website about the Louisville game. They're 5-4. We lost to two sub-par opponents in South Carolina and Miss. State, whom we should have beat. Staring at a 7-5 record, but that's what 2 stars get you. We fail to ever even offer a 5 star, which I don't understand.

[ 10-29-2007, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: Knoxville Cat ]