TheCatsDomain.Com Message Boards: Will Stoops Get Us to Where L'ville Is Now?

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Posted by Cat Fan In The Mill (Member # 2756) on 01-03-2013, 08:10 AM:

After watching Louisville dismantle Florida in the Sugar Bowl, is it safe to ask if Stoops will get UK to where UL is now in terms of football?

Posted by Trey Ball (Member # 332) on 01-03-2013, 08:47 AM:

I don't think so. Two entirely different scenarios in my mind and Louisville has two huge advantages over UK:

First, Louisville isn't playing in the SEC so they can use that to their recruiting advantage. For Example, Charlie Strong can legitimately say "Come to Louisville and you can be the ACC Champion and play in a BCS Bowl". Stoops can say that, but a recruit can also see that means that UK has to beat Florida/Georgia/South Carolina/Tennessee/Missouri/Vandy for that to happen plus two to three teams from the Western Division (Alabama/LSU/Texas A&M/Auburn/Arkansas/etc) to do so. Probably not that realistic.

Secondly, the City of Louisville, like or not, is a much more attractive place for recruits to spend time as compared to Lexington.

[ 01-03-2013, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]

Posted by catmandoo (Member # 1284) on 01-03-2013, 09:17 AM:

We certtainly can get better but the chances of getting to the point like Louisville played last night is slim to none. imo

Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 01-03-2013, 09:58 AM:

No. That would take Jesus and I think he is in to saving lost souls, not lost football programs.

Posted by boomdaddy (Member # 2644) on 01-03-2013, 02:52 PM:

Teddy Bridgewater is a special player. He was a stone cold playmaker as a freshman.

Posted by rlt4uk (Member # 3194) on 01-03-2013, 03:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by handycat:
No. That would take Jesus and I think he is in to saving lost souls, not lost football programs.

I've never heard it put quite that away.

Posted by FlaCatz (Member # 925) on 01-03-2013, 04:00 PM:

Simply put NO!

Posted by bayer (Member # 462) on 01-03-2013, 08:12 PM:

It depends. Depends on the caliber of the players Coach Stoops is able to get. And depends on what he, Neal Brown and the other coaches can do with them. But first and foremost, you have to have the players. It is simply amazing how good a coach you can be with great players.

Posted by UKFan_22 (Member # 6216) on 01-03-2013, 11:53 PM:

Absoutely yes, Kentucky has the number 2 in the nation defense coordinator head coach now and number 2 offensive coordinator now the oc at UK. Recruiting is absoutely going to improve, he will bring in more talent than Strong. He has number 1 Dual Threat QB's in this class and next class wanting to come to UK, he has the top DT in the nation considering UK seriously, he has eager coaches who actually recruit the best of the best. Stoops has more contacts than Strong and he can get whoever he want, Strong couldn't get the number 1 juco de in 2 week span unlike Stoops did. UK football is about change for the good as major facility upgrades are going to happen and this coaching staff will be one of the strongest in the nation when done. Anyone who thinks different you about to eat those words because Stoops and Co going to make UK a serious football team very soon.

Posted by boomdaddy (Member # 2644) on 01-04-2013, 06:59 AM:

I was very impressed with the Stoops hire. Have to give Barnhart credit for going in the Defensive direction this time. The fact that Stoops reeled in Neal Brown to be the OC, is proof enough that Kentucky is on the right track, offensively as well as defensively.

Just think what the Mumme era could have been if they actually had a defense.

I don't think UL will sustain what they have, after Bridgewater leaves for the pros, after next season. That is just my guess.

[ 01-04-2013, 07:01 AM: Message edited by: boomdaddy ]

Posted by Trey Ball (Member # 332) on 01-04-2013, 08:32 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by UKFan_22:
Anyone who thinks different you about to eat those words because Stoops and Co going to make UK a serious football team very soon.

So you think in 3 years that UK football is going to play in a BCS Bowl game? That is what Strong has done at Louisville.

You name the bet and I will take it. I will even give you an additional two years to give them 5 years to make a BCS Bowl. In my mind there is about a 0.0000000000001% chance of that happening with UK playing in the SEC.

Stoops is a tremendous hire for UK and will get UK football back to completing 7-5 and 8-4 type of seasons and even pull an occassional upset like the Rich Brooks teams did, but they just will not have the depth to compete game in and game out for an entire SEC schedule.

[ 01-04-2013, 08:36 AM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]

Posted by UKFan_22 (Member # 6216) on 01-04-2013, 01:57 PM:

I actually do because he is bringing in a excitement to the program that no one has in a long time. He is recruiting the best players and winning the recruiting battles, don't be shocked to see UK have a top 25 recruiting class in this class

Posted by Trey Ball (Member # 332) on 01-04-2013, 02:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by UKFan_22:
I actually do because he is bringing in a excitement to the program that no one has in a long time. He is recruiting the best players and winning the recruiting battles, don't be shocked to see UK have a top 25 recruiting class in this class

UK Can probably have a Top 25 recruiting class, probably somewhere between 20 and 25 and that would put them around 10th or 11th best in the SEC becasue you know that Florida/Bama/Georgia/South Carolina/Texas A&M/Auburn/LSU/Vanderbilt will be ahead of them and Arkansas/Miss State/Ole Miss/Missouri/UT will all be ranked right there with them.

See the problem?

[ 01-04-2013, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]

Posted by rlt4uk (Member # 3194) on 01-04-2013, 02:32 PM:

origially quoted by trey ball
You name the bet and I will take it. I will even give you an additional two years to give them 5 years to make a BCS Bowl. In my mind there is about a 0.0000000000001% chance of that happening with UK playing in the SEC

So your saying there is A chance.

I like ukfan_22's enthusiasm.

Posted by UKFan_22 (Member # 6216) on 01-04-2013, 03:07 PM:

The difference this time and last coaching staff is these coaches actually recruit the best players and can coach them. Stoops is just like Saban he wants perfection, nobody including UL will have the coaching staff in the state of ky will compete with UK, because UK is going a Top 10 in the nation recruiting staff.That competes, with LSU,Bama,USC of the world, Strong and his coaches couldn't get 3\4 the recruits UK is about to land this year and next 3 years.

Posted by Trey Ball (Member # 332) on 01-04-2013, 06:42 PM:

I like his enthusiasm as well. I just don't think he has realistic expectations. UK will never have a better recruiting class than Alabama/USC/LSU.

Posted by UKFan_22 (Member # 6216) on 01-04-2013, 07:14 PM:

Well Kiffin is about to get fired, UK has already flipped one USC player to UK, We have coaches who coached at Top Flight Schools with top flight contacts. I almost bet you everything i got to say in the next 2 years UK will not be bottom feeder in the SEC in recruiting and be competing with UF, USC and UGA for the SEC East.

Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 01-04-2013, 08:11 PM:

If Stoops is anywhere as successful as some think, he won't be at UK long. IMO, I think long term football success at UK has the same probability as it does at Duke, UNC or Kansas.

[ 01-04-2013, 08:21 PM: Message edited by: handycat ]

Posted by UKFan_22 (Member # 6216) on 01-04-2013, 08:36 PM:

handycat you do realize Stoops went to UK for the job not the other way around. Stoops is going to stay here alot longer than many believe.

Posted by bayer (Member # 462) on 01-04-2013, 08:53 PM:

Trey, in all honesty, the UofL BCS bowl game is somewhat of an illusion. Oh sure, they made Florida look bad, but had they been in the SEC, Big 12 or other major conference they would not have been in a BCS game. In fact, I still wonder how the BCS continues to give the Big East champ a BCS game.

Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 01-04-2013, 09:07 PM:

UKFan_22, IMO it doesn't matter who contacted who. I agree that Stoops is a good hire and I for one was pleasantly surprised. To award him a SEC title or BCS bid before he even takes the field at UK is a little far fetched, IMO.

Even if he achieves the success that Trey mentioned in his post, 7-5 or 8-4 type season, I think he will be gone. Why would he stay? If he "turns" into a big name football coach, he will want to coach at a big time football school just like any other coach would. If he achieves the success you envision, I won't want to be in front of an exit door at the stadium on the day that happens.

For every one coach in any sport that turned a program around and stayed at that same school, I can name dozens of others that left for pastures that were greener, at least in their mind. I've yet to see, read or hear anything about Stoops that would make it any different for him.

I hope someday you can point to this post and say "look what an idiot you were." Nothing would make me happier.

Posted by Trey Ball (Member # 332) on 01-04-2013, 09:14 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by bayer:
Trey, in all honesty, the UofL BCS bowl game is somewhat of an illusion. Oh sure, they made Florida look bad, but had they been in the SEC, Big 12 or other major conference they would not have been in a BCS game. In fact, I still wonder how the BCS continues to give the Big East champ a BCS game.

I'm not disagreeing with that at all. I think if UL played in a "down" SEC this year they would have finished 8-4 at best. That is my point though. UK can't get to where UL is "right now" because of the conference they play in. It is not going to happen. Way too many powerhouse teams for a team like UL or UK to go through with zero or one loss.

If UK played in the Big East, yes they would have a shot at a BCS Bowl, but they don't.

Posted by UKFan_22 (Member # 6216) on 01-04-2013, 09:50 PM:

Handycat Mark Stoops is already a "big name coach" He wanted the UK job because he wanted to compete with the best in the county. He is not going anywhere even he gets 7-5 or 8-4 and I would expect you know that he is reaching for hell of alot better record than that its not impossible to think UK can win 10 games or more. Vandy had 9 this year and yet they don't have near the talent UK is going to have in players and coaches. I am not an idiot for thinking Stoops can do better than what the Joke did and I know he bring in better talent than Brooks but I glad Brooks did what he did. Maybe in 2 or 3 years from now maybe you look at your own post and say you are the idiot not me.

Posted by Trey Ball (Member # 332) on 01-04-2013, 10:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by UKFan_22:
Maybe in 2 or 3 years from now maybe you look at your own post and say you are the idiot not me.

UKFan_22,

I think you read handycat's post wrong. He was not calling you an idiot.

He is saying that you, UKFan_22, can pull this post back up and shove it in his, handycat's, face and call him an idiot because UK has achieved what you are saying they can achieve.

[ 01-04-2013, 10:20 PM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]

Posted by Trey Ball (Member # 332) on 01-04-2013, 10:22 PM:

I would also argue that Mark Stoops is already a big time coach. He is a big time Assistant Coach, but no one knows what he is as a "Head Coach". Huge difference. Go ask his brother Mike. He didn't fair so well at Arizona running the whole show and he was one of the hottest "Assistant Coaches" in the job market at the time.

So is Mark more like Mike or Bob? Time will tell. He is at UK a max of 5 years IMO before he bolts to greener pastures.

Let's put it in perspective. The Coach with the most victories in the history of UK football has 60 wins. His name: Paul Bear Bryant and he left for greener pastures.

[ 01-04-2013, 10:32 PM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]

Posted by UKFan_22 (Member # 6216) on 01-04-2013, 10:29 PM:

You are right Trey I did read that wrong I am sorry Handycat, Trey I would disagree though Mike tenure at Arizona went down after Mark left him to become the DC at Florida State.

Posted by Trey Ball (Member # 332) on 01-04-2013, 10:46 PM:

UKFan_22,

I am like handycat, I hope you are completely correct and I am completely wrong. Nothing would make me happier. Love the outlook, I just don't think it is very realistic based on the last 50 years of Kentucky Football.

UK did hire a Big Name Head Coach back in 1982, in fact a College Football Hall of Fame coach, Jerry Claiborne. He is the best football coach that UK has had in my lifetime.

He was a terrific head coach at Maryland leading Maryland to an undefeated regular season in 1976 before losing in the Cotton Bowl. His record at Maryland was 77-37-3. He won three ACC championships during his 10 years at Maryland. Prior to Maryland he led Virgina Tech to a 61-39-2 record.

In his 8 seasons as UK head coach he posted a 41-46-3 record during the 1980's. The SEC has continued to get stronger since the 1980's while UK has probably gotten worse. That is the challenge that Mark Stoops faces. I have nothing but respect for him for taking on the challenge.

[ 01-04-2013, 10:48 PM: Message edited by: Trey Ball ]

Posted by handycat (Member # 2323) on 01-05-2013, 08:05 AM:

Sorry for the misunderstanding UKFan_22. I certainly wasn't calling you an idiot because we have a difference of opinion.

Posted by catmandoo (Member # 1284) on 01-05-2013, 10:55 AM:

I'm not as optimistic as some of our posters but definitely will support our coaching staff and players win or lose. IMO this past season was a low point in fan support of our coachs and players, to the point it was butt ugly. Hopefully we will never see that again.

Win or lose we are KENTUCKY!

Posted by Old Norm (Member # 1482) on 01-05-2013, 12:30 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by catmandoo:
to the point it was butt ugly.

I've seen a few butts that I thought looked pretty nice!

Posted by bayer (Member # 462) on 01-05-2013, 07:49 PM:

quote:
quote:
Originally posted by catmandoo:
"to the point it was butt ugly."

And then Old Norm said:
"I've seen a few butts that I thought looked pretty nice!"

I would bet not around here though! [Big Grin]

[ 01-05-2013, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: bayer ]